Author Topic: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism  (Read 22521 times)

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Offline Robin Rowland

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BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« on: February 13, 2013, 02:12 PM »
BBC's photo editor looks at the current and future business of photojournalism. Lots of Canadian content, including a look at Donald Weber's work and a study by the Canadian office of Deloitte that says crowd funding is about to take off.

The business of photojournalism

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-21418442

Here is the best public link to the Deloitte study (likely more detailed material for clients)

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_CA/ca/industries/tmt/tmt-predictions-2013/index.htm?src=caen_home_tp


Robin Rowland
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Offline Warren Toda

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2013, 04:46 PM »
When someone tries to "crowdfund" on a street corner, they often get charged under a city bylaw. But online, crowdfunding is a legitimate and noble activity. Remember when it used to be called "cyber begging"?

Are income and sales taxes a form of crowdfunding?

 ::)


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John Densky

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 05:14 PM »
that seems a pretty cynical thing to say Warren. if many of us working outside of the dailies were to rely on the good will of the folks handing out assignments or the agencies, we would be making weekly trips to the food bank.

Canada, and in particular Southwestern Ontario, is an apropos example of the disconnect between the cronies at the old institutions and the wealth of talent that emanates from this region. many have left to work overseas and provide little to no content here in Canada. this is a sad and frustrating situation.

without the support of private and alternate funding sources some of the best work coming out of this country would not see the light of day. is this a long term solution? i sure hope not but in the interim i personally salute each and every donor that has made many of these projects come to light.

the world of top tier photojournalism and documentary work is almost entirely divorced from the media empires here in Canada. it's a damn shame the powers that be at said empires can't recognize this.



Offline Warren Toda

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 02:52 AM »
Quote from: John Densky
that seems a pretty cynical thing to say Warren.

No and yes.  (You make it sound like being cynical is bad.)


NO:

My point was literal. "Crowdfunding" is today's darling because it sounds so warm and fuzzy and it has its own web site (e.g. Kickstarter).

But when others did it +10 years ago for the exact same purposes - to raise money for book projects or fund startup online photo businesses - it was called "cyber begging" and those folks were laughed at.

Crowdfunding has existed for centuries but under other names.

The Montreal Olympics were partially crowdfunded (remember those $10 lottery tickets); almost every amateur sports team sells 50/50 tickets; all charities rely on crowdfunding; the Girl Guides have been selling cookies door-to-door for a long time; Trivial Pursuit was crowdfunded.

Daily newspapers crowdfund each day's edition. Of course, they don't call it crowdfunding, they call it paid advertising.

Many business often rely on crowdfunding to get started when they get money from friends, relatives, etc.



YES:

(Sadly, this part is going to be a ridiculously long-winded, meandering stroll.)

I'm going to reference Kickstarter.com, specifically its photography section, only as an example.  Other similar sites can probably be included.

I'm going to use the words "you" and "your" but that's not a reference to you, John. It's directed at a "generic" photographer. Really.




I bet if any photographer ever went on "Dragons Den", they'd get laughed off the show. Documentary photography (and some other types of photography, too) is simply not a viable business any more. Two reasons are:

               (a) it's a totally inefficient use of time. Pictures and stories don't happen on a schedule;
               (b) it's not scalable. If you work twice as long, you don't make twice the money.



Throughout the last few centuries, some artists (writers, painters, sculptors, musicians) had "patrons" - people who financially supported them. Some photographers had patrons back in the 1800s and it still happens today.

Spot quiz: when someone goes to the opera, the ballet or an art exhibit, they're called a "patron of the arts".  But when someone goes to a hockey game, why aren't they called a "patron of the sports"?

Answer: It's automatically assumed that the arts can't / don't make money so they need people who will continually supply financial support. These patrons are viewed as wonderful, caring, charity givers.

But since pro sports seemingly makes zillions of dollars, it's a business and sports fans are just paying customers.

But "patronize" has two meanings.



Why do some artists (including photographers) view themselves as some sort of sacred being whose purpose in life is to enlighten the rest of society?

A home renovator can be an artist, (well, at least some can). Same for electricians, chefs, doctors, etc. Everyone is an artist, in some way, in their work. Everyone wants to, can, and does, create.

But only a tiny sector of creators asks for other people's money to finance their business.



Since the Internet provides for free access, (and, of course, we know it's not free), many people think that everything on the Internet should be free. This distorted view of things then leads to people thinking that money should also be free, but only other people's money.

One problem with sites like Kickstarter is that it's fast, free and lazy to post a money request online.

Looking only at the photography section on Kickstarter:

Everyone is a photographer. Everyone's pictures should be in a 10-page spread in Time and National Geographic magazines. Everyone deserves a book publishing deal. Everyone's idea for a photo essay is unique, incredible and will change the world ..... if only they could just get the money to shoot it.

• In one Kickstarter description, the photographer refers to himself as "famous" and "important" eight times in his bio. In fact, he's "world famous". He's an important artist doing important work for an important gallery.

• Another photographer says that if he can raise the required funds, it will "create the energy" for him to go out and shoot.

• Another seeks a few thousand dollars so he can renovate his studio and make wonderful new photographs.

• Another needs several thousand dollars so he can travel Europe for a couple months and take pictures. The people who donate money will get postcards from him!



I know photographers who raised tens of thousands of dollars and even more by doing it the real way - sending letters, making phone calls and doing in-person meetings where they laid out plans for their projects.

Sitting back and typing a post into a crowdfunding web site => big whoop.

There's a 1979 movie with Peter Sellers titled Being There. The title gives away the secret of success.



Hopefully, the irony here is not lost:  Kickstarter is crowdfunding its business of crowdfunding.

The only people cashing in are the site's owners. So far they've made $24 million (they keep 5% of all donated money - $486 million to date).

This is exactly how/why online stock photo sites like Getty, iStockphoto, etc .make money. This is how/why Apple makes money through iTunes and its App stores. This is how/why lotteries make money.

To make money -> be the middle man and sell to people's desire/greed for easy money.



Here's a post from my new web site: BusinessStarter.com:

Quote
I'm starting up a new pet food business but can't afford to hire photographers to shoot pictures for my advertising or my web site. I've always wanted to start a business and help puppies and kittens.

If you're a photographer who would like to help me get my business started, here's my plan:
     • donate five hours of photography and I'll give you a credit line on my web site;
     • donate ten hours and I'll give you a credit line in a newspaper ad plus I'll send you a personalized thank-you card;
     • donate 25 hours and you'll get 15% off in my store.

I'm sure many photographers will happily donate their time and skills, right?

There's no difference between someone looking for money to start up a business to sell, say, pet food, and  a photographer looking for money to shoot a project.



When your kid wants money for a new bike, do you:

     (i) give them money,
     (ii) tell them to stand near the side of the road with an "I need money" sign,  or
     (iii) tell them to get a paper route, cut some lawns or set up a lemonade stand?

The point is, while folks are standing on the side of Kickstarter Avenue holding up their "I need money" sign, the parade passes them by. The person should be in the parade (with their sign) rather than just on the sidelines.

Or, to use another analogy: instead of strolling the yellow brick Kickstarter Road to the promised land where a wonderful wizard will give you what you want, remember that you're wearing ruby slippers.


Money, and tons of it, is out there. You just need a decent plan.

"I want to go to Paris to take some pictures and I'll sell a bunch of inkjet prints" isn't a plan. It's a hobby destined for a garage sale.

Hey, Google invests $300 million per year on startups. Unfortunately, none on photographers because no photographer has come up with a good idea yet.  It's too late to invent Flickr, Youtube, Tumblr, 500px, etc.  I guess all the good ideas are gone.




Quote from: John Densky
if many of us working outside of the dailies were to rely on the good will of the folks handing out assignments or the agencies, we would be making weekly trips to the food bank.

A lot of stuff published in most dailies is superficial, predictable crap. Sadly, that's what it's become. Cheap and cheerful. Don't upset the readers.

But you can't blame or shame someone into doing business with you.

If the dailies aren't buying then either they're the wrong customer or your marketing needs to be changed.

Follow the money not your ego.


Quote from: John Densky
...the disconnect between the cronies at the old institutions and the wealth of talent that emanates from this region. many have left to work overseas and provide little to no content here in Canada. this is a sad and frustrating situation.

Agreed.

Many Canadian photographers are working in the U$ or overseas. How is this different than Canadian actors, musicians, filmmakers and models who move to the US or Europe?

The economy is what it is and it is what you make it.



Quote from: John Densky
the world of top tier photojournalism and documentary work is almost entirely divorced from the media empires here in Canada. it's a damn shame the powers that be at said empires can't recognize this.

Absolutely true.

But until a photographer becomes a publisher, nothing will change. Media companies are afraid of change (ironic since everything around them is changing), afraid of risk, afraid of being first, afraid of being last, afraid of being different, afraid the public might wake up.

But who needs an empire? I thought old media was dead - good riddance to those self-serving gatekeepers. Long live the Internet where we're all publishers and everything is free!


Since nobody is lining up to hire you on staff then, like magic, you're self-employed! Congratulations, Mr. or Ms. Small Businessperson.

First rule of business: if it doesn't make money then:

              (a) stop doing it;
              (b) change it;
              (c) buy lots of lottery tickets;
              (d) get rich parents or a wealthy spouse.

Pick one because there are no other options.





Confucius is claimed to have said:

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.


The translation may be off but he may also have said:

Give a photographer an assignment and he's happy for a day. Teach a photographer to market himself and he's happy for a lifetime.

or maybe it was:

Give a photographer an assignment and he's happy for a day. Teach a photographer to complain about being a photographer and he's happy for a lifetime.




 - My 0¢ worth.

Everything is easier said than done. And that's a good thing. Otherwise, everyone would be doing it.


« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 03:20 AM by Warren Toda »

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Offline Robin Rowland

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 11:47 AM »
Warren

A paper route?????? :)
That is so 20th century. The papers dropped kids and started using adult deliverers in the 1980s.   Today the kids have one person paper routes--that is they read papers--it's called a tablet.

As for getting kids to work, every business now practices serial internships where the kids all work for free largely because they have no choice if they are ever to hope to break in to a "real job" (and their patrons are parents or partners, if they can't get support for internships at companies that pay their execs millions, they serve coffee or hamburgers)

As for marketing oneself ....it's often a case of needing the money to market yourself (by going and meeting  people as you say) before you can get money...vicious circle continues unless you have a patron or win the lottery.

We do need a practical solution to this problem but what? I also know a crowdfunding writing project in the late 90s that also failed, because it was ahead of its time.  It may be the crowd funding is beginning to work, because of the advance of technology...but who knows?



Robin Rowland
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Offline Warren Toda

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 09:34 PM »
Quote from: Robin Rowland
A paper route?????? :)
That is so 20th century. The papers dropped kids and started using adult deliverers in the 1980s.

Yeah, that was put in for comic relief.   ::)

But while we're on the topic, are there any paperboys/papergirls in Canada? If yes, is there a story to be had here?  Who will be the last paperboy/girl in Canada?


Quote from: Robin Rowland
As for getting kids to work, every business now practices serial internships where the kids all work for free largely because they have no choice if they are ever to hope to break in to a "real job" (and their patrons are parents or partners, if they can't get support for internships at companies that pay their execs millions, they serve coffee or hamburgers)

( Hey, I know someone who flipped burgers when she was a teen. She went on to own a McDonalds franchise. I know another person who served coffee. She now owns two Tim Hortons franchises. )


Easy solution. Change the grossly out-of-date school system.

In Grade 9, every student must start a business and run it until the end of Grade 12. Ideally a scalable business. If their business fails during this time, they must start another. In other words, the students must be self-employed.

During this time, the students are taught about business, accounting, taxes, contracts, intellectual property, etc. Think of it as a mini-MBA program.

At the end of high school, if a student fails, then the kid is probably going to be stuck working for someone else. Not necessarily a bad thing.

But if the kid succeeds, then hopefully they will have a great head start towards being self-employed and creating jobs.

By contrast, in today's school system, kids are taught how to be good employees. If that fails (and it is failing in today's economy), the students (and the economy) have no fall-back.



Quote from: Robin Rowland
... if they can't get support for internships at companies that pay their execs millions...

That's a major problem at most businesses throughout North America and beyond. Not sure if a fix can be legislated. For example: a CEO cannot be paid more than 20x the lowest employee salary.

The further an employee gets from the "factory floor", the less they know about the day-to-day business of the company. The most important and influential employee is not the CEO but rather the person who deals with the customer.




Quote from: Robin Rowland
As for marketing oneself ....it's often a case of needing the money to market yourself (by going and meeting  people as you say) before you can get money...vicious circle continues unless you have a patron or win the lottery.

Exactly. And this is why most photographers looking for free money on sites like Kickstarter are wasting everyone's time.

If the photographer was smart (i.e. serious about being a professional photographer and not just a hobbyist trying to self-publish a vanity book), then they would ask for money to fund their education.

For example:

I need $10,000 to pay for meetings with a lawyer, accountant and business manager. Money will also be spent on planning and executing a two-year marketing plan.

          Donate $ 250 and get a free family portrait session.
          Donate $ 500 and get a family portrait plus individual portraits.
          Donate $1200 and I'll shoot your wedding.


Too many folks on Kickstarter are just looking for a free ride to the next corner when they really should be buying a map.



Quote from: Robin Rowland
(...) it's often a case of needing the money to market yourself (...) before you can get money (...)

We do need a practical solution to this problem but what? (...)  It may be the crowd funding is beginning to work, because of the advance of technology...but who knows?

It takes money to make money.

They say the first million is always the hardest to make. So I'm working on my second million first.

People are being trained to believe that, to be successful, all they need is a catchy Youtube video, appear on a reality TV show or do something stupid online. Human nature is that we always want to take the short cut, the path of least resistance. Lotteries are a booming business.



People will invest in (or pay for) anything that promises them some sort of positive return. It doesn't have to be a cash dividend. It's anything that can solve a problem for them.

Why doesn't a group of families "crowdfund" a local photographer? They each pay a monthly "retainer" to the photographer so he/she can run their business. In return, each family gets a family portrait every few months and monthly pictures of their kids/pets.

Or to reverse it, why doesn't a photographer sell annual photo contracts/subscriptions? This would allow customers to spread the cost of photography over a year and the photographer gets some guarantee of monthly income. Example:

  • $200 per month for one year gets: four family portraits (one per season plus an Xmas picture).

  • $300 per month, also get X number of individual portraits plus ...

  • $500 per month, also get X number of framed photos plus all pix on an iPad....


Instead of crowdfunding, maybe a startup business should do it the old fashion way - get business partners. This way, photographers can pool their resources or, at least, pool their misery.  :)


While it is possible to run a successful full-time wedding/portrait studio or a commercial studio, I don't think it's possible to run a successful full-time news/documentary photography business. Those days are long gone.

News/documentary photography is going to be a sideline business or a hobby for the wealthy photographer.



« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 10:47 PM by Warren Toda »

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John Densky

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 04:42 PM »
That is a fairly long reply Warren and I thank you for taking the time to write it. I can't help but again feel a thread of cynicism though.

The funny thing about the examples you mentioned above is that they are all quite narcissistic in tone. I would hazard a guess that none of them are working photojournalists? There have been many examples of successful campaigns on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I am loathe to be thought of as someone who would believe shame to be a effective motivator. With that said, I stand by my comments about the current situation in Canada. I could say much more but I reckon the point is not lost on this community.

There are some of us who have an unstoppable drive to continue their work in photojournalism. As a like minded individual, I would not hesitate to crowd fund to bring a story to light. Hell, I would prostitute myself outside of a 7/11 if need be. A character fault? Perhaps. I assure you a large group of us are out pounding the pavement or going about it the 'real way' on top of holding our hands out as the crowd shuffles past.

The way forward is a million miles away from convincing an editor at a photo desk to get on board. Most of them are overworked nor do they have any real editorial clout anymore. I know I will get a load of flack for the last statement but hey, lets be honest.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 05:57 PM by John Densky »


Offline Warren Toda

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 08:11 PM »
Quote from: John Densky
That is a fairly long reply Warren....

I'll try to keep this reply a bit shorter.  :)


Quote from: John Densky
... I can't help but again feel a thread of cynicism though.

But I'm a hopeful cynic: things can be changed for the better but first, some folks need a whack of the reality paddle.


Quote from: John Densky
The funny thing about the examples you mentioned above is that they are all quite narcissistic in tone. I would hazard a guess that none of them are working photojournalists? There have been many examples of successful campaigns on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I did only a quick look through Kickstarter's photo section. I know that some other non-photography propositions have been successful for everyone involved. But these were cases where the crowdfundee approached things as a business person and not as a person looking for a free ride.

When asking for donations, or for that matter when asking for a job, don't make it about you. Always make it about them. What are you going to give them? What are you going to do for them?

This is where most photographers fail. Photographers always say: I won awards....  I have shot these subjects...   I have been here.....   I am available.....  I charge these rates....

That's backwards. It totally leaves out the customer - the most important person in your business.

As a photojournalist, you have to sell the story AND why that particular publication needs that story.  What's in it for the publication other than a bunch a nice photos?

Talk to Louie Palu about this. He's good at pitching, editing and composing different stories to suit different publications.


Quote from: John Densky
I am loathe to be thought of as someone who would believe shame to be a effective motivator. With that said, I stand by my comments about the current situation in Canada.

Canadian TV networks know they have to provide a wide range of programming. They have no problem buying freelance programming or foreign-made TV series (usually from the US). A few years ago, a friend of mine self-produced a TV show and sold it to two Canadian TV channels.

If TV broadcasts its programming and papers can't compete with TV, (and why not?), then why doesn't a Canadian newspaper "narrowcast" some programming? It's mind-boggling that Canadian newspapers don't do this.

Why doesn't a newspaper buy (i.e. license) third-party programming? This is not to be confused with buying "content" (content = space-filler).

Example: Buy the narrowcast rights to the great stuff on MediaStorm. Buy the narrowcast rights to the documentaries from Rogue, Boreal, ......


Quote from: John Densky
There are some of us who have an unstoppable drive to continue their work in photojournalism. (...) I assure you a large group of us are out pounding the pavement or going about it the 'real way' on top of holding our hands out as the crowd shuffles past.

Good for you! I applaud you for this.


Quote from: John Densky
The way forward is a million miles away from convincing an editor at a photo desk to get on board. Most of them are overworked nor do they have any real editorial clout anymore. I know I will get a load of flack for the last statement but hey, lets be honest

Photo editors at newspapers, especially in Canada, will be extinct within a few years. Total loss of respect and understanding for what a photo editor can do.



Sometimes you may find yourself marching in the wrong parade.

Look at an organization like TechnoServe. Now follow the money uphill. Look at who funds TechnoServe.

Large companies like Google, Visa, American Express, Coca Cola, etc.  all have money put aside for goodwill and charities. They all need photos to show the public how they're donating their money. Sure, they want happy, feel-good pictures but maybe you can piggyback assignments.

I know a photog who was paid to go to Turkey (~10 years ago) to shoot some fashion stories.  She spent one week doing the fashion shoots and the next two weeks on personal projects. The fee for the fashion jobs covered everything.

Point is, "new" money will come from private corporations (i.e. non-media) who, of course, are looking for some good PR. But that shouldn't limit what the photographer shoots; only what they submit to the corporation. The big catch is that the photographer has to sell themselves to the corporation.

Can you produce projects for TV such as for the CBC's Passionate Eye program? Does TV have to always be video? Of course, you'd need first rate audio.


Okay, I lied about making this a short post.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 08:57 PM by Warren Toda »

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John Densky

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 09:11 PM »
well the hopeful cynic part makes me breathe a little easier my friend. i also appreciate the amount you are contributing to the conversation. i must collect my thoughts overnight to keep the value of this thread top notch.

Louie is an example everyone should be following. I agree

i must mention something though... i have been hard on the Canadian crowd where my experience with some folks south of the border has been equally unpleasant. i was lucky enough to have a great conversation with a photo editor at a very large outlet in the US, who has been nothing but supportive of my work, that led me to the understanding that the photo editor in most publications has very little say in matters these days. i do not present this as synonymous with all outlets but this fellow is very dialled in (forgive my attempt at colloquialisms)

all around an unsavoury situation domestically though. i was speaking with another 'local' fellow/friend recently and when he relayed what he received for work out of Afghanistan i was honestly shocked and not in a good way. he also has very good things to say about Louie if that matters.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 05:59 PM by John Densky »


Offline Jack Simpson

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 11:00 PM »
Trivial Pursuit was crowdfunded.

and, partially, by Chuck Stoody :)

Cheers and that's my trivia for the day

Jack



John Densky

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 10:31 AM »
well, nothing like a good sleep and bouncing this conversation of a few others to screw the head on straight.

i am a very blessed guy. i have the friendship and respect of some very talented photographers around the globe and as a result i am able to hear a broad spectrum of ideas and thoughts from working photographers. i don't pretend to have the answers and with the utmost humility and respect i echo your sentiment regarding Louie P. it would be wise to glean as much info from him as one could.

so, back to the conversation at hand. i fear the only contribution i can make here is to tell the truth. this is the truth from John's mouth. i do not speak on any others behalf.

whatever 'complaints' i have with the old school thinking in Canada contain more regret than sour grapes. i have had the great opportunity to work quite a bit in the past few years and i don't spend much the crying over my beer. i have also made enough money over these years to open a gallery and soon to be small foundation to support photojournalism and documentary work.

there is a frustrating disconnect in Canada between the established media, the institutions training and educating photographers and the core group of seriously talented and driven Canadian talent. forgive me for saying so Warren but terms like 'the real way' (not verbatim of course) and the ever present 'old days' attitude that permeates NPAC serves to increase the divide.

in the years i have been stopping by NPAC the real questions that stand directly in the way of photojournalism and documentary work moving forward with the times remain un-spoken. like a white elephant floating about in the room. there are few photojournalists i respect and call a peer or friend who would argue mediocrity permeating the dailies and magazines. even you yourself have eluded to this. why has this been allowed to happen? why do we joke about it openly yet fail to address it professionally? wouldn't this be an apropos role for NPAC to play? why are the academic institutions full of faculty with little or no credibility or connection with modern ways of moving forward? I taught the past year in one of these academic institutions and the gap (an encompassing and far less character intense solution) was astonishing. the same academic institution is expecting me to lecture this month for free? why are none of Canada's new generation of talented people interfacing with these institutions?

a separate category all together is the lack of regard for this generation of very talented and dare i say super motivated photographers here in Canada. again, due to my friendships with others i hear over and over again the same refrain. we all have zero issue working for top flight outlets abroad and to some extent in the US yet here in Canada getting someone to acknowledge an email is a huge triumph. i assure you i am not the only one saying this and i also assure you the mouths this sort of stuff is coming from belong to widely respected folks.

crowd funding has been a lifeline for some of us. with that said it isn't the answer by any means. what most of us are focused on is moving forward and any help in that direction will be utilized. frankly i think it is disingenuous to identify with the possible failings of crowd funding and then paint others with the same brush.

the good thing about the Canadian crew, that is working and finding ways to keep at it, is that we are a tight knit group. we all support each other in our ways and continue to find new outlets and avenues to distribute work. from the Weber and Towell end of the spectrum through to folks like myself. out here at medium i have seen and received support from a lot of these people yet on the thread weeks back (on NPAC) about upcoming shows etc. nary a whisper?

i realize this is a long and complicated discussion. frankly i am uncertain i wish to continue it here as i don't sincerely see the point. a while back i was discussing my membership here with another photojournalist and arrived at the conclusion that it does not serve me in any way. it hasn't served any of us over the past few years and thus the bleed away of the talent. i had this very discussion with the organizers of the PPOC recently. this will be the last year i will maintain my membership here and what most will mistake for sour grapes i assure you is actually regret.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:04 PM by John Densky »


Offline Mark Blinch

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 12:02 PM »
John - I am not quite sure why you are blaming the education institutions, old cronies running the media, and NPAC for your distaste in the state of Canadian photojournalism? Its seems to be a conversation you wanted, "to start a dialogue" as they say, and when someone disagrees with you and you say NPAC does nothing for you? Id hate to quote JFK.. but..  ;)

I know your giving back to the community with Medium, I have visited your site and its a cool idea. You are putting your money where you mouth is as you see a gap in the way of what your concerned about.

I also think that NPAC seems to be lacking in photographers posting on this board, or having a some sort of giant impact or influence on Canadian photojournalism, but I am not sure its supposed to. Its typically Canadian in that way.. but I dont think NPAC is the problem.

But when you look around, there are counter-arguments to what your saying

I just look at people like Lucas Oleniuk from the Star, a paper of which sends him all over the place and he is doing a killer job. The Globe sends their photographers out on international assignments and to big stories. Boreal has been doing all sorts of documentary type stuff all over the place, I am pretty sure they fund themselves doing daily photo work to fund their passion. There are Canadians all over the globe doing awesome stuff. Louie P was just telling me how he funded his mexico work.. and look where it ended up.. in the globe and mail!

I guess what bothers me most about your arguments is that you are placing blame on pretty much everything in this country. The quality of the education or the dalies and magazines have nothing to do with the quality of work being produced by Canadians. These photographers dont need papers or some school to tell them how to do their job or have to work at a paper. There are a tonne of passionate people working in this country from wires, to doc photogs, and paper shooters.

A good passionate photographer needs their own will to do and fund the work they are interested in, and should not blame the quality of education or publications (and their small budgets) in this country. That is how I see it. There will always be space for interesting work somewhere.



 




John Densky

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 12:16 PM »
I think there is a misunderstanding. I am not complaining and I have little need from Canadian media. I have no shortage of work.

But yes I do lay blame in some corners here in Canada and I stand fast behind that statement. You have mentioned some names of people and collectives that I know personally and without speaking on their behalf, I would suggest their opinion will sound very similar. In fact I know it.

My thoughts are shared by many. It remains their choice to express them. The industry and NPAC have a problem and the original post clearly underlines this.




John Densky

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2013, 12:36 PM »
The bit about no need in Canada is not supposed to sound as obnoxious as it did. I count humility as one of my most important character traits.



Offline Mark Blinch

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Re: BBC on the current and future business of photojournalism
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2013, 12:54 PM »
There are many conversations going on here, so I could be misunderstood to what were actually talking about. I know a few dudes at the Boreal collective.. and I am sure they share your sentiments.. along with many others but thats not the point. What I am saying is wether NPAC supports you or even exists, or the old media empires in southwestern ontario are divorced from doc work, shouldnt matter.

Doc work is timely and expensive so why would anyone base a business on that. Does it mean its not important? No! But those old cronies you speak of still come up with doc work every once in a while. You dont want to lose money either which is why you are crowdfunding. Thats why Boreal is a great example of a bunch of photogs who got together with a vision and they fund it in many different ways.

Its always going to be about the photographers will to find an avenue and find some way to fund the way the work they want to do.