RCMP credit for Moncton shooter photo

[Mike Aporius]

I noticed some papers used the photo of the Moncton shooter the next day and credited either RCMP or Twitter when it was actually taken by Viktor Pivovarov/Moncton Times and Transcript....which is behind a paywall.
It was not released to CP until the following day.
The only RCMP photo i saw released was a tweet of a cropped screen grab from the Times and Transcript mobile app.
So how is it some papers used the full image and only credited RCMP?
We tried acquiring the photo directly but were turned down.
Did I miss something, or are some photo departments still buying into the ill-informed Wild West mentally of web copyright?

[Moe Doiron]

 .

[Graeme Roy]

Mike,

See my reply to Warren about fair use and social media…

We didn't apply the fair dealing rule to the RCMP tweeted photo from the T&T until the next morning, and believe me that was after a lot of discussion over it. I'll leave it at that.

But, we also knew the T&T was going to release the photo to us imminently, which they did.

I can't respond for the others who clearly just took the file from the T&T site - because the full frame was not what the RCMP tweeted, we all know that. Perhaps they were able to get the photo from the T&T, I don't know.

Funny, everybody is happy to have rules around this stuff until it really matters and they want something badly enough. The notion of exclusivity these days is dead. Your exclusive will be used by others within minutes either with permission or not , it is a fact of life.

My own view is that publishers need to get their heads wrapped around this and understand that you can still have the 'win' and get all the credit by an enforced and respected mandatory-credit code.

The content is going to get used all over anyway, once posted the genie is totally out of the bottle.

Graeme

[Steve Russell]

But, we also knew the T&T was going to release the photo to us imminently, which they did.
I can't respond for the others who clearly just took the file from the T&T site - because the full frame was not what the RCMP tweeted, we all know that. Perhaps they were able to get the photo from the T&T, I don't know.
Funny, everybody is happy to have rules around this stuff until it really matters and they want something badly enough. The notion of exclusivity these days is dead. Your exclusive will be used by others within minutes either with permission or not , it is a fact of life.
My own view is that publishers need to get their heads wrapped around this and understand that you can still have the 'win' and get all the credit by an enforced and respected mandatory-credit code.
The content is going to get used all over anyway, once posted the genie is totally out of the bottle.

I have to agree with Greame, the Star used the image and then issued this correction

Greame has it right as far as the genie being out of the bottle, for the G20 riots police released several Toronto Star pictures to everyone as they looked for suspects, I've seen papers use those pictures as generic G20 pictures with a Toronto Ploice credit.

I think police should attribute pix that they grab from news organizations.

[Mike Aporius]

Thanks guys.
We have our own policy, which I admit can be as fluid as a river, so we used the RCMP tweet and credited the crap out of it. RCMP/TWITTER/TIMES AND TRANSCRIPT.... something like that. And we kept used the tweet itself as the image to keep it in context.
It still treads a really narrow line, so we had a lot of discussion before using it.

"Funny, everybody is happy to have rules around this stuff until it really matters and they want something badly enough. The notion of exclusivity these days is dead. Your exclusive will be used by others within minutes either with permission or not , it is a fact of life."

So are we at a point where we give up? Just throw a watermark on it (like the Globe did with the Rob Ford video) and just accept the brand recognition? Maybe.

Fair dealing, to me, is pretty straight forward, but the laws just can't keep up with the social media landscape. And no one knows how to enforce it.
So until someone comes down hard on an organization leaning on the fair-dealing crutch (in Canada)...things won't change.
The best policy is to develop your own outlet's individual rules, then regulate, advocate and defend your choices the best you can.

I doubt this discussion will end anytime soon.

[Bill Sandford]

I'm surprised that the police would take a photo from a web site knowingly, since this is in my opinion, theft.

I was also interested in the fact that the Moncton RCMP shut down a radio frequency feed that the media and public can listen to, just so they have some idea of what they service is doing day to day. Then, they want to public not to tweet anything about the search for the suspect.

I know that last bit is off topic, but it all comes down to a police service doing what it wants, press and pubic be damned.

[Graeme Roy]

Bill,
I'd say the police arguement that it was a matter of imminent and vital community safety they would be pretty safe. There was a gun-toasting guy at large who just shot 5 cops, killing three. That is a pretty big over-riding community interest.
Graeme

[Graeme Roy]

Thanks guys.


So are we at a point where we give up? Just throw a watermark on it (like the Globe did with the Rob Ford video) and just accept the brand recognition? Maybe.

Fair dealing, to me, is pretty straight forward, but the laws just can't keep up with the social media landscape. And no one knows how to enforce it.
So until someone comes down hard on an organization leaning on the fair-dealing crutch (in Canada)...things won't change.
The best policy is to develop your own outlet's individual rules, then regulate, advocate and defend your choices the best you can.

I doubt this discussion will end anytime soon.

No I don't think we give up at all.  But for me as a distributor rather than an end user it is a far more complicated question. We're not just using something, we are giving it to others the use, and that means penalties for mis-use could conceivably br much higher.

Butt I do stand by my view that when something is hot all the moral and ethical benchmarks start to rapidly shift. It's our job to bring them back to where they should be.

[Moe Doiron]

I’ll weigh in on this issue. First let me say that Viktor did a very brave thing, both as a journalist and citizen, and in doing so helped the police identify Bourque swiftly. There's no measure to how significant this photo was to them and the public for that matter in those crucial first hours.

I don’t have as kind words to say about the leadership at The Moncton Times-Transcript however. By treating this photo as a “scoop” and keeping it behind a paywall to subscribers only, not letting The Canadian Press, Reuters and other media get the word out during a massive manhunt and forcing the RCMP to lift the image and Tweet it on their own is nothing short of outrageous.

Quite frankly any use of that photo, with or without permission, during the hours of an ongoing manhunt for an armed and dangerous suspect constitutes a matter of public interest and safety. Period.

No question Viktor deserved credit, but by only having the RCMP Tweet version making the rounds online during a desperate search I can easily excuse those who did not credit him in haste and commend everyone who took the steps to get that photo to public eyes quickly and without hesitation.

[Jack Simpson]

I’ll weigh in on this issue. First let me say that Viktor did a very brave thing, both as a journalist and citizen, and in doing so helped the police identify Bourque swiftly. There's no measure to how significant this photo was to them and the public for that matter in those crucial first hours.

I don’t have as kind words to say about the leadership at The Moncton Times-Transcript however. By treating this photo as a “scoop” and keeping it behind a paywall to subscribers only, not letting The Canadian Press, Reuters and other media get the word out during a massive manhunt and forcing the RCMP to lift the image and Tweet it on their own is nothing short of outrageous.

Quite frankly any use of that photo, with or without permission, during the hours of an ongoing manhunt for an armed and dangerous suspect constitutes a matter of public interest and safety. Period.

No question Viktor deserved credit, but by only having the RCMP Tweet version making the rounds online during a desperate search I can easily excuse those who did not credit him in haste and commend everyone who took the steps to get that photo to public eyes quickly and without hesitation.

Very well stated, Moe.

Cheers,

Jack