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NPAC Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Steve Russell on February 26, 2015, 12:33 PM

Title: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on February 26, 2015, 12:33 PM
The Toronto Star photo department is looking to fill two summer releif photographer/videographer positions starting the week of June 28 until September 19.   We are looking for recent graduates from photojournalism programs and looking all across Canada to find the best possible applicants. 

The photographers will need their own equipment, Canon preferred, and their own car.  This is a paid position including an additional car allowance.

The application process is new, all applicants are asked to shoot an assignment.  That assignment is to shoot and edit a skating feature video.  That video should be under two minutes in length, include titling and music.  The videos can be hosted or sent to us for review via wetransfer.

The videos will be judged and the top applicants will be asked to send their resume and portfolio for review.

Deadline for that assignment is March 31.

Once you have completed the assignment, email a link or wetransfer to Taras Slawnych, tslawnych@thestar.ca
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Brent Foster on February 26, 2015, 01:33 PM
Love this format for application! This is how I was hired at the LA Times. All finalists for the position had to shoot and submit a multimedia piece for consideration. Scary, but an awesome test!

Good Luck!

-B
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on February 26, 2015, 07:51 PM
And if you don't like Toronto  ::)  the Calgary Herald is also looking for a summer intern. Details are in the Job Openings forum.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on March 01, 2015, 09:45 AM
Just fixed Taras' email address, D'oh!

It is .ca not .com!
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on March 30, 2015, 02:02 PM
Wow!

One day before the deadline and there are only four, count them, four, submissions!

What is going on?
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Mark Blinch on March 30, 2015, 02:21 PM
Im hoping students are waiting til the last minute to get everything just right...
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on March 30, 2015, 07:13 PM
Im hoping students are waiting til the last minute to get everything just right...

I'm hoping this too.
Back in the day of portfolios we would usually have about half of them in the day before the deadline and the other half would arrive deadline day.

I'm hoping that we have 5 to 10% of the videos and Taras gets his inbox slammed tomorrow!

FYI
Taras is using this as the intro, from the pool of videos he will delect his favourites for an inteview and look at portfolios.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on April 01, 2015, 10:44 PM
Taras tells me the number of submissions was a dozen,
better than four but hugely disappointing!

Maybe newspaper photojournalism is or has died!
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on April 02, 2015, 03:41 AM
Very long post. Sorry.

TL;DR:  Uber is wrong. There's no money to be had in the taxi business. How many rich cab drivers have you seen? Uber is exactly like a photo stock agency that sells pictures for $1. At a cheap stock agency, photographers do all the work and make no money. Meanwhile, the stock agency owners, who do make money, depend on photographers who can't see the numbers. Let's see how long it takes drivers to figure out Uber's numbers.

If Uber was smart, it would go into the same-day courier business. Amazon and other retailers are begging for this.



Quote from: Steve Russell
Taras tells me the number of submissions was a dozen,
better than four but hugely disappointing!

Maybe newspaper photojournalism is or has died!

I'm surprised you got more than five and I'll tell you why ..... :)


First, a huge "attaperson" goes to the Toronto Star and a big "attaboy" goes to the other four(?) papers and wire service that still have internships. These are quite important but they're falling by the wayside. Newspapers say they can't afford to hire interns and many students can't afford to accept an internship. But all is not lost.

The problem with the Star's internship, for example only, is that for many students, the job is too expensive to accept. If a student doesn't live in Toronto, the added living costs might equal about 70% of their pay. This leaves almost nothing for future tuition, new equipment, etc. A job in a local factory or bar is more profitable.

Sure, one could say that a bit of sacrifice now, by working a less-profitable internship, will pay for itself in the future. That's probably true if there was a chance of newspapers hiring in the future.

At the Star, for example, an intern student reporter needs only the clothes on their back. But an intern student photographer needs full camera gear, laptop, software, smartphone and a car. Yet both interns get paid the same rate (I stand to be corrected here). I know the photo department has little to do with this and it has to fight to even have an internship.

A car allowance is nice but despite what the accountant says, financially it's not the same as a company car. There's a rea$on why companies are moving to employee-owned cars. It shifts all liability and risk to the employee.

Student photographers who don't have a car and don't live in the city where the internship is offered simply can't afford to take that internship.

How about:

  1) Remove the requirement for a car. If a reporter (staff or intern) doesn't need a car, then a student intern photog shouldn't need one. This will limit the type of jobs the intern will shoot but tough, so be it.

I can recall another Toronto daily that let some of its student photogs use public transit. Waiting for the bus wasted time and they were limited to the downtown area but it seemed to work.

If staff reporters can use taxis, why can't interns? Professional news photographers in some cities use only public transit and taxis. Why not in Toronto?

By the way, editorially, isn't the Toronto Star anti-car?


  2) During the summer months, most university and college residences are empty. Can a newspaper work out a deal to have the interns live in a nearby residence? This would be cheaper than a hotel or apartment and better than a room in someone's basement. Or have the interns stay in the Chairman's guest home?

Back in the late 1980s, one student intern lived in his beat-up car parked on the street in front of the paper or in a nearby lot. He "bathed" in a newspaper washroom sink every third or fourth day.  :o

Another photographer actually lived in the newspaper building, although management and building security weren't aware of it.  ::)


  3) Remember that you're hiring an intern for their promising talent, not for what they own. If you supply your staffers with gear then why not be fair and treat the intern the same? After all, you're expecting the intern to do the same work.

What other job at a big company requires that you bring all your own tools?


  4) What would happen if the intern was sponsored? Nikon, Canon, Sony, Microsoft, Pizza Pizza, .... etc?  It wouldn't mean that the intern will have to wear logo-covered clothing but maybe the paper can work out a contra deal. Although, the dollar value is relatively low.

Maybe have the publisher downgrade his company car from a Lexus to a Cadillac? The monthly lease savings could help pay for an intern.


  5) Move into the 21st century and offer e-Internships or i-Internships?

What if a paper was crazy enough to hire a number of student intern photographers in a number of cites/towns across the country? These students might each get one assignment per day or a few per week. This would be a part-time internship with no added living expenses required and maybe even no car needed. They would still get daily reviews and advice.

  Benefits:

  i) The newspaper would get its own stories/pictures from across the country. This wider range of potential stories might inspire its staff reporters to pursue stories that were formerly out of geographic reach. Maybe coordinate the students to work on weekly national projects.

  ii) More students can be involved. It's more inclusive. Less reliance on wealthier students (or wealthier parents). Since it's a part-time internship, students could still pursue other part-time jobs or interests.

 Disadvantages:

  i) The student loses the value of being in the newsroom and working with the photo department.

  ii) Newspaper doesn't get cheap labour to fill in for vacationing staff.



  6) The requirement for a short video was cute but other than acting, what job requires you to test for the part? McDonalds doesn't ask for test burger flips. Makeup artists aren't asked for test eyeliner and lipstick. Do reporters have to submit test stories? Do editors have to edit some test articles?

I know that some newspapers are still betting on video. But when most staffers (photogs and reporters) don't/can't shoot video, then why the intern? First, video-enable all staffers, then you've got ground to stand on. Failing that, just make sure the intern owns an iPhone. :)




Newspaper internships haven't changed in many decades (except for the fact that most internships now pay). Yet the world and the economy have changed drastically. Newspaper internships are no longer the golden ticket in a chocolate bar.

But newspapers need to continue running internships – real internships and not just an excuse for cheap labour. I've spoken with students who had internships at the Toronto Star and/or The Canadian Press. They said it did them a world of good and they learned more in two months than they did in two years of school.

Newspapers need to sweeten the pot to attract interns, or at least they need to understand today's economy beyond their own stock price, because newspapers are no longer the only game in town. Newspapers ask for the moon in terms of qualifications and equipment but their pay is earthly bound, (Sorry, not as poetic as I would've liked but wait for it).

French author Antoine de Saint-Exupery was quoted as saying (roughly translated):
Quote
When you want to build a ship, don’t start by gathering wood, cutting boards and distributing the work, but awaken in men a desire for the vast and endless sea.


Perhaps when you need photo interns to apply for a job, don't start by giving out assignments and equipment requirements but awaken in them a desire to tell stories and be part of something larger than themselves. It doesn't have to be a job, it can be an adventure.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on April 02, 2015, 02:59 PM
And just to drag this out even further (and to procrastinate from doing any real work)  :) ...

If I was in charge of a newspaper, I would ask potential interns: If you were to work for my newspaper this summer, what five stories would you like to cover? What's the story, why is it important to our readers and what's the best way to visually report it?

Good ideas are better than good technique.

A reporter just has to be a journalist and that's easy. A photographer has two jobs - photographer and journalist - and this is, or at least it should be, the future of newspapers.

We've been communicating with video (moving pictures) for ~120 years. We've been using text for ~5,000 years (although early "words" were images). We've been communicating with images for ~45,000 years. Guess how our brains work.

There was a much simpler and better test than asking applicants to produce a video. Ask to see the applicant's cellphone. If they had Instagram+Twitter+Periscope, then they're hired or at least shortlisted for the job. Those three apps can create far more readership engagement than any newspaper video.

Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: David Buzzard on April 03, 2015, 04:35 AM
That's a pretty daunting job interview. It probably did a good job weeding out anybody who wasn't totally 100% serious. 
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on April 06, 2015, 08:10 PM
Wow!

Great stuff Warren!
I'm surprised that no one else has jumped in here.

Quote from: Warren Toda
At the Star, for example, an intern student reporter needs only the clothes on their back. But an intern student photographer needs full camera gear, laptop, software, smartphone and a car. Yet both interns get paid the same rate (I stand to be corrected here). I know the photo department has little to do with this and it has to fight to even have an internship.

But aren't these all things that students and recent graduates need once they finish school anyways?

Im my case, the big between first and second year at Loyalist purchase wasn't gear, though I did invest in some, it was a car.
Though with insurance rates the way they are, that might be the biggest expense, maybe more than the vehicle!

Quote from: Warren Toda
If staff reporters can use taxis, why can't interns? Professional news photographers in some cities use only public transit and taxis. Why not in Toronto?

This rarely happens, cab slips are rarely seen in the newsroom anymore!

Quote from: Warren Toda
During the summer months, most university and college residences are empty. Can a newspaper work out a deal to have the interns live in a nearby residence? This would be cheaper than a hotel or apartment and better than a room in someone's basement.

University Idea is nice, but they already rent out in the summer, I think that the intern has to take responsibility to do the leg work to find accommodation. When I did my summer internships, one in London, one in Toronto, I found my places, through my network of friends that found me inexpensive summer student sublets, I was renting from students who went to their hometowns over the summer. And yes they were in basements.

Quote from: Warren Toda
Remember that you're hiring an intern for their promising talent, not for what they own. If you supply your staffers with gear then why not be fair and treat the intern the same? After all, you're expecting the intern to do the same work.
What other job at a big company requires that you bring all your own tools?

We do have some gear available for the intern, I'm not sure what is in the cupboard.
We are hiring an intern based on their promising talent, that we have identified through images, moving and still, that they have captured with equipment that they already have.
Again, throwing back to my old days, when I did my internship at the London Free Press and the Star my kit was a Canon A1E, Canon EOS 630, 80-200mm, 24 f2.8, and one strobe!
My summer at the Star paid for a laptop and film scanner to set me up for freelancing.

Chef's, mechanics, carpenters, all have their own tools!

Quote from: Warren Toda
Move into the 21st century and offer e-Internships or i-Internships?

Great idea, but it would be more suited to a national paper I think.

Quote from: Warren Toda
The requirement for a short video was cute but other than acting, what job requires you to test for the part? McDonalds doesn't ask for test burger flips. Makeup artists aren't asked for test eyeliner and lipstick. Do reporters have to submit test stories? Do editors have to edit some test articles?

Actually our video editors had to do a "test" and our copy editors did as well (back in the when we had them)

I'm on the fence about the idea, it has it's pros and cons.
But, that was the requirement that Taras put out there.
Taras put out there an assignment requirement that one might perform at the paper over the course of a shift.
Applicants were given a month or two to do the assignment.

Outside of "skating" the assignment was wide open for candidates to find an angle and have time to shoot it and put it together.
It is a good test for storytelling, imagery and audio.
We only received about a dozen submissions.

In the past when I was on the screening panel and the requirement was a portfolio we would get between 50 to 80 portfolios.
But a bunch of those portfolios were
- student portfolios where you could see that they were not shooting anything outside their assignments
- portfolios where over half their images were from the most recent protest/event de jour to bum their image numbers up to over 10.
- portfolios that were travelogues of some trip to somewhere exotic, but no images from Canada

At the end of the process we would end up with a dozen of so serious portfolios
So if "the assignment" helped weed out those aforementioned portfolios and identify serious candidates, maybe that was a good thing.

The top half of the candidates will still have to come in for an interview and show a portfolio.

Quote from: Warren Toda
If I was in charge of a newspaper, I would ask potential interns: If you were to work for my newspaper this summer, what five stories would you like to cover? What's the story, why is it important to our readers and what's the best way to visually report it?
Good ideas are better than good technique.

I do like your idea about having the applicant present several ideas about stories.
I think that is something everyone who has an interview should be prepared to present.
It was a question I was asked in my interview.
I think it is also important to irons in the fire on at least one of the story ideas too.
Because once you start at the paper you will be hitting the ground running.


Quote from: Warren Toda
A reporter just has to be a journalist and that's easy. A photographer has two jobs - photographer and journalist - and this is, or at least it should be, the future of newspapers.
We've been communicating with video (moving pictures) for ~120 years. We've been using text for ~5,000 years (although early "words" were images). We've been communicating with images for ~45,000 years. Guess how our brains work.

Amen!
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on April 06, 2015, 11:19 PM
Don't get me wrong. I want newspapers like the Toronto Star to have internships, I want them to get dozens of applications and I'd like to see them hire a half dozen or more students. I know budgets aren't what they used to be but internships are very important for the students, the newspaper and, (not to sound overly dramatic), also for the future of photojournalism.  It's a shame that many other papers have given up on this.

But if a paper gets only a dozen or fewer applicants then something is broken. Or maybe working for a living interferes with a student's Facebook and Netflix time.  :)

Quote from: Steve Russell

Quote from: Warren Toda
At the Star, for example, an intern student reporter needs only the clothes on their back. But an intern student photographer needs full camera gear, laptop, software, smartphone and a car. Yet both interns get paid the same rate (I stand to be corrected here). I know the photo department has little to do with this and it has to fight to even have an internship.

But aren't these all things that students and recent graduates need once they finish school anyways?

Im my case, the big between first and second year at Loyalist purchase wasn't gear, though I did invest in some, it was a car.
Though with insurance rates the way they are, that might be the biggest expense, maybe more than the vehicle!

This assumes the student has money from either rich parents or well-paying part-time jobs. Most jobs don't require you to own a car plus thousands of dollars worth of camera gear. It's a catch-22 thing: you need a job so you can buy the gear but you can't get a job unless you already own the gear.

Try this: have the newspaper rent a car for the intern. Monthly rental for a compact car with unlimited mileage ($33/day plus insurance) is equal to or even *less* than the mileage rate the paper will pay the student for driving their own car if they had one.

Or, get a media review car from a car manufacturer and say the intern is doing an in-depth, two-month review of the car.  ::)


Car insurance in Ontario is broken and it's criminal that the government has refused to do anything about it. But that's a whole other conversation.



Quote from: Steve Russell
Quote from: Warren Toda
If staff reporters can use taxis, why can't interns? Professional news photographers in some cities use only public transit and taxis. Why not in Toronto?

This rarely happens, cab slips are rarely seen in the newsroom anymore!

Partner with Uber.  :)

Assuming reporters occasionally leave the office, how do they get around other than having a photographer chauffeur them?




Quote from: Steve Russell
Quote from: Warren Toda
Remember that you're hiring an intern for their promising talent, not for what they own. If you supply your staffers with gear then why not be fair and treat the intern the same? After all, you're expecting the intern to do the same work.
What other job at a big company requires that you bring all your own tools?

We do have some gear available for the intern, I'm not sure what is in the cupboard.
We are hiring an intern based on their promising talent, that we have identified through images, moving and still, that they have captured with equipment that they already have.
Again, throwing back to my old days, when I did my internship at the London Free Press and the Star my kit was a Canon A1E, Canon EOS 630, 80-200mm, 24 f2.8, and one strobe!
My summer at the Star paid for a laptop and film scanner to set me up for freelancing.

Sure, it's quite possible to get by on two cheap bodies (under $1000 each), two lenses and one flash. But one dropped/smashed piece of gear = ~ two weeks pay. (eg. Nikon has minimum repair rates and anything apparentally dropped *starts* at plus-$500)

I've had gear hit by a baseball, a puck, a police baton, a rioter's club and a car and I've had my flash ripped off a camera body several times. Each repair was expensive but each was covered by the newspaper.  When I shot new homes for a newspaper, I got numerous flat tires, plus one totally destroyed tire, due to driving in construction sites. But the paper paid for those.

If you have to pay for your own work-related repairs, why put your gear or car at risk? Camera insurance has tightened up over the past 20 years and the deductibles (and premiums) are now quite high. Does any newspaper insure its gear or is it too expensive even for them?




Quote from: Steve Russell
Chef's, mechanics, carpenters, all have their own tools!

A friend is a car mechanic and all his tools are supplied. Another friend is a chef and she gets all her "gear" supplied.

A few acquaintances who either own restaurants in Oakville or a car detailing business in Mississauga supply their summer students with everything except clothes/shoes. And none of them are multi-million dollar businesses.



Quote from: Steve Russell
In the past when I was on the screening panel and the requirement was a portfolio we would get between 50 to 80 portfolios.
But a bunch of those portfolios were
- student portfolios where you could see that they were not shooting anything outside their assignments
- portfolios where over half their images were from the most recent protest/event de jour to bum their image numbers up to over 10.
- portfolios that were travelogues of some trip to somewhere exotic, but no images from Canada

At the end of the process we would end up with a dozen of so serious portfolios
So if "the assignment" helped weed out those aforementioned portfolios and identify serious candidates, maybe that was a good thing.


You're right. I've looked through student portfolio applications and many were just like you said: portraits of family or friends, landscape pictures, parades, holiday pictures, etc. Very few went the extra kilometre.





Quote from: Steve Russell
Quote from: Warren Toda
If I was in charge of a newspaper, I would ask potential interns: If you were to work for my newspaper this summer, what five stories would you like to cover? What's the story, why is it important to our readers and what's the best way to visually report it?
Good ideas are better than good technique.

I do like your idea about having the applicant present several ideas about stories.
I think that is something everyone who has an interview should be prepared to present.
It was a question I was asked in my interview.
I think it is also important to irons in the fire on at least one of the story ideas too.
Because once you start at the paper you will be hitting the ground running.

The point to this is to see how the student thinks. It's not really the actual story idea but rather it's to show that the student thinks like a journalist, they think in terms of stories and news value rather than just pretty pictures (e.g. sports, celebrities, rock concerts).

And speaking of internships, here's a timely news report (http://www.theonion.com/video/should-companies-discontinue-unpaid-intern-fights,38179/) about companies taking advantage of unpaid interns.


Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on April 09, 2015, 11:13 PM
Apparently this is why the Toronto Star is reluctant to have staff cars anymore:

(http://www.warrentoda.com/npac/star-car.jpg)

Passersby (right) help dig out a Toronto Daily Star staffer's (L) car on a city street in Toronto in 1934. (Photo - William James or possibly his son Norman James (http://www.nna-ccj.ca/lb/view_winner_detail.php?media_id=1131). Source - City of Toronto Archives). Just to point out that it wasn't a photographer who was driving.  :)
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on April 11, 2015, 12:09 AM
Maybe interns can work out some sort of ride sharing system like these news photographers:


(http://www.warrentoda.com/npac/press-car.jpg)

Stills and movie photographers leave the Queen's Park Legislative Assembly in Toronto, 1919. (Photo - William James. Source - City of Toronto Archives).
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Kenneth Armstrong on April 11, 2015, 06:03 AM
Better parking situation at Queen's Park back then, eh?
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on April 11, 2015, 10:30 AM
Quote from: Warren Toda
But if a paper gets only a dozen or fewer applicants then something is broken.

I'm curious now, how many applicants do the other newspaper internships get?
How many apply for the Tom Hanson award?
What are the requirements for said awards and internships?

Quote from: Warren Toda
If you have to pay for your own work-related repairs, why put your gear or car at risk?

I'll ask Taras about this, but I'm sure any gear broken while on internship will be repaired.


Quote from: Warren Toda
Does any newspaper insure its gear or is it too expensive even for them?
Funny story, at the Star we have no specific insurance on gear, but we found out a few years ago that we were covered under a different policy that the company has. The deductable? $10,000!

Quote from: Warren Toda
Most jobs don't require you to own a car plus thousands of dollars worth of camera gear. It's a catch-22 thing: you need a job so you can buy the gear but you can't get a job unless you already own the gear.
There lies the dilemma.
What is most important?
I think that a graduate should have the car and gear after graduation, you should be prepped to work.
It would be nice if the paper still gave out a car to the summer students, but we don't anymore.
Like I said before I sacrificed gear for a car.
But I also spend two months of summer break surrounded by bugs planting trees to raise money for tuition, gear, film and paper. (I just dated myself there)


Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: David Buzzard on April 11, 2015, 01:21 PM
In my entire career, I've only spent a year as a true staff photographer, and that only had a very small equipment allowance.  If you're a freelancer, and I suspect that there are going to be very few staff photographers hired anytime in the near future, you better be prepared to have your own gear.  I've said this before, there just isn't enough money in editorial freelancing to make a professional living, you need to have commercial work to pay the bills.

Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Fred Lum on April 11, 2015, 03:11 PM
My first ever internship at the then wonderful London Free Press back in the early 80's before most of you were a twinkle in your parents' eyes, (herein called the Freep), I had use of a company car for assignments. Made the mistake of taking a car home one night and heard about that quite strongly the next day. never happened agin ;)

I also had most of my own gear but the cubbie of long lenses were there for the asking. Back then the sight of a 300 2.8 caused heart palpitations in this summer staffer. I imagine today, students consider 300 on the short end of teles.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Rod Frketich on April 14, 2015, 09:41 AM
To answer your question Warren applications for the summer job here at The Record have been dropping off steadily for the past number of years. The quality of candidates is still very good--the top few show very great talent. Good singles very good stories.
I am surprised each year how numbers of people applying are slipping. There are fewer summer jobs out there, I would expect the numbers to climb as people try and get their foot in the door.
The most interesting thing I find is how few first year students apply. Just having your work seen, building a relationship, showing progressing each time your portfolio viewed. That alone is worth applying.


Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Warren Toda on April 15, 2015, 12:11 AM
I do recall, around 1999/2000, the Toronto Sun would get perhaps 30 (or more?) applications each year. There was always a large box overflowing with portfolios.

Since numbers are down, do you fault the newspapers, the students, the schools, the economy?

Some of us can probably remember when most major papers across the country hired two, three, four, or more, photo students for the summer. Today I can think of only six photo internships in the entire country.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on April 15, 2015, 09:59 PM
Since numbers are down, do you fault the newspapers, the students, the schools, the economy?

Maybe the blame lies everywhere!
How is that for a copout!

The Star used to have three summer internships plus a year-long internship.
The paper killed the summer internships in 2009 and the year-long in 2008.
The summer internship was revived last summer and expanded by one spot this summer.
Maybe we fell off the internship radar, but I do know that Taras sent letters to Loyalist and SAIT two months before the deadline.

I am surprised each year how numbers of people applying are slipping. There are fewer summer jobs out there, I would expect the numbers to climb as people try and get their foot in the door.
I'm surprised too.
I'd love to see Loyalist and SAIT conduct a student survey on what their career aspirations are.
What is their dream job?
Where do they think they will be a month after graduating? A year? Five years?

Any students care to comment?

You would think that a summer internship at a paper would be a good first step regardless of where you want your path to lead.

The most interesting thing I find is how few first year students apply. Just having your work seen, building a relationship, showing progressing each time your portfolio viewed. That alone is worth applying.

I'll have to ask Taras if any first years applied.
But, I do agree with Rod!
First Years!
If you are out there, APPLY!
Let editors see your work, grow those networks!
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Andrew Lahodynskyj on April 22, 2015, 12:05 PM
Hey guys,

jumping in on this conversation.

I just wrapped up my second year at Loyalist, and I can say that I applied for almost every single internship made known to me. There were one or two that I didn't hear about until after the deadline, but would have applied for those if I had the chance. I was also quite impressed with the number of internship opportunities this summer!

Steve and Rod, I agree with you about first years applying. It never hurts to have fresh eyes on your work. You never know, that editor might bring you under their wing and help you to become a stronger photographer/videographer which might land you the job the next summer.

I know personally I want to in Toronto covering news, sports, and whatever other work I can get. Some classmates of mine have decided that documentary is more their thing and don't really have a lot of interest in doing your typical daily newspaper work.

Those are just my two cents.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Fred Lum on April 22, 2015, 03:17 PM
I may get burned for this but forgoing a newspaper internship because they want to do doc work is short sighted imo. If you look at the photographers who are doing that type of work, you will see that they pretty well all have grounding in daily newspaper work and some are staff or continue to freelance for newspapers and wires.

Yeah the daily assignments you get may not at first blush be what you want to do but you WILL learn and at the same time, squirrel away some coin for your future projects. I get that newspapers are not in fashion but it's extremely myopic to pass up that opportunity.

Indeed, if you don't have a good relationship with photo editors (a benefit of summer placements), then you're going to have a tough job ahead building that relationship if you do end up with a project that you want published.

With the way the industry is now, why someone would ignore this knowledge and skill building chapter of their young career is simply baffling. Unless they're god's gift...
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Robin Rowland on April 22, 2015, 05:07 PM
I'm sure the Star as one of the biggest surviving papers in Canada and a Guild shop does pay interns somewhat decently (for interns that is).  Perhaps the lack of applicants is because the students (student comments welcome) are looking at the big picture and the even more dismal state of small town journalism.

A blog post by Andrew Kurjata for CBC Prince George is still getting posts on FB from CBC and other folk almost a week after the layoffs. http://andrewkurjata.ca/blog/2015/04/17/journalism-2015/ (http://andrewkurjata.ca/blog/2015/04/17/journalism-2015/)

And I am putting the most quoted pull quote in bold

Quote
In Prince George, I have seen newsrooms everywhere shrink as, like the CBC, people are expected to do more with less. I have seen many talented people parachute out of journalism to jobs elsewhere. As one former newsroom director told me, she was making barely more than if she were to take a job at Dairy Queen, and she wasn’t sure it was worth it anymore. Being a journalist has become akin to a backpack trip around the world: something relatively-well-off people do in their twenties before getting a real job.

When I started as entry level "two way man" at the Sudbury Star, 40 years ago, the pay was decent enough, I had a small apartment and company car, although I usually used my own camera (after all it was a Thomson paper). In those days in Sudbury my young colleagues in private radio were paid a lot better relative to what they are paid now--today it is often close to minimum wage, so it may mean that Dairy Queen may actually pay more.

Quote
forgoing a newspaper internship because they want to do doc work is short sighted imo.
  Fred watching what goes on, there may be a feeling that "doc work" is the only "real" work,  one reason is that a lot of the routine work done in the past is now given to reporters with point and shoots or smart phones.  In the past few years, with Northern Gateway and LNG the news here, while I do get wire and newspaper assignments and staff photogs show up from time to time, most of the reporters including some from large papers who come here simply shoot with their phones and those images run. (Of course they missed the better shots you get with long lenses, but I get the feeling their managers don't really care)   
 
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Andrew Lahodynskyj on April 22, 2015, 08:16 PM
There have actually been quite a few recent grads going out west to papers for staff jobs. Lloydminster's newsroom is full of fairly recent Loyalist grads. A classmate of mine just got a staff position with the Welland Tribune as a two way.

I'm sure that nerves play into the decision of applying or not. I remember when I sent my application to the Star last summer I was completely terrified. Mostly because I have always been extremely self critical, and I'm sure a lot of first year photoj students feel the same way sometimes. But I managed to get an interview, which really caught me off gaurd, and it was a fantastic learning experience.

Fred I completely agree with what you said. Maybe some people will come around. I hope that many of my fellow classmates and future students embrace the advisory board and get their foot in the door with all the editors so that when they do go out in the world they have a good foundation to work off.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Fred Lum on April 22, 2015, 08:41 PM
I hope that many of my fellow classmates and future students embrace the advisory board...

can you explain this ? extremely curious
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Robin Rowland on April 24, 2015, 01:59 PM
From the Washington Post

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/04/FT_Salary_Gap.png)

Story
Why the PR industry is sucking up Pulitzer winners
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/23/why-the-pr-industry-is-sucking-up-pulitzer-winners/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/23/why-the-pr-industry-is-sucking-up-pulitzer-winners/)
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on April 25, 2015, 08:53 AM
Some classmates of mine have decided that documentary is more their thing and don't really have a lot of interest in doing your typical daily newspaper work.

I understand that, but what I have a hard time understanding is what are these students going to do after graduating.

Newspaper photojournalism isn't everyone's bag of tea,
but an internship at a newspaper is a great stepping stone or heck, pay cheque for taking pictures!

Some of the documentary photojournalists that passed through the doors at the Star as interns include Charla Jones, Ian Willms, Patti Gower.
Heck, Don Weber interned and freelanced at the Toronto Sun. Louie Palu was staff at the Globe.

Quote from: Andrew Lahodynskyj
I hope that many of my fellow classmates and future students embrace the advisory board and get their foot in the door with all the editors so that when they do go out in the world they have a good foundation to work off.

I hope so too, I know that the advisory board visits are a littkle intimidating, I still have nightmares of Rod McIvor cropping all my pictures.
I think the committee has made some good strides, especially by adding photojournalists like Marta Iwanek, who is a recent graduate and experiencing a career path many of the students will follow when they graduate.
I used those visits when I was Loyalist to build a network with most of the advisors. I got cards from everyone and tried to keep in touch after graduating.



Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: David Buzzard on April 25, 2015, 02:23 PM
Almost every event and festival has PR people generating stories and pre-written tweets, as well as generating photos.

It's not happening that much in the writing end of things, but I find the newspapers I work for will take handout photos rather than using photos from me.  Now when we have a big festival in town, I don't really put much energy into covering it, as I know they're just going to use the free handouts.
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: David Chidley on April 25, 2015, 06:42 PM
I have been doing a lot more teaching now.  I've taught News Photography to Broadcast and Print Journalism students at Conestoga College for six years now.  Also now teaching a lot in a new Digital Photography Program at Lambton College. 

Yes there are still LOTS of students signing up for Journalism and even more for Photography programs. 

Yes the Journalism students all now seem to "know" that the News Photography class is one of the most important they take.  They understand they need as many skills as possible to have any chance.

Yes many grads have told me that during interviews for "Reporter" jobs, the very first question asked was "Can you take photos?"

Do they get jobs?  Yes, the best, the hardest working and most talented are still getting jobs.  BUT I do see the frustration and desperation many of them will face when they start that job search. 

Why more don't really pursue the great internships is because I think basically many are totally intimidated, as most have had very little or no contact with industry people.  Just like those students who will show up at NPAC conferences, we all know those ones are the bravest, and best of the bunch.

With my teacher hat on now, I'd really like to see more Mentoring Programs and Work Experience opportunities to get those promising students a chance to get "some" experience before the summer internships and then graduations come around.

Hard workers will rise to the top! But a little "door opening" and introductions to the business will go a long way to build bridges to the industry for the students.

Back to 1984, yes, a long, long time ago.  I had the opportunity to hear from and see the work of Barry Gray of the Toronto Sun in my Stills class at Ryerson.   Barry showed us photos from the Olympics, NHL, Pro boxing, big news, and wow, shooting shadows in back alleys for school suddenly looked pretty pale by comparison.

I thought that's the ticket and marched down to the Sun and asked to apply for a Summer Internship at the newspaper. Well the Sun did not have a summer Photo Internship and neither did the Star.  (the did at one time but one individual messed it up, but that is another story).   

SO do I give up?  NO, I gave them my application and kept going to the paper, showing them new school work, trying to shoot spec. work, and "hanging out."  After my 15th, YES STUDENTS, 15th, appearance at the paper (I counted), asking over and over again, if they was a chance for a summer position, they created one!

That summer was golden, I shot some pretty good photos, I learned more in two months than I did in two years in school.  The next year the Star reinstated their summer Photo position.   I like to think I had a bit to do with that too.

So the lesson is? It's not a right, or to be expected, it's a hard-earned privilege, and if only 12 people apply to the Star, so what, the most determined and hardest working, (and some talent), persistent individuals will earn the job.  And likely do a great job!  Doing a video for the application, I'm sure was a big challenge.  Well nobody said it was going to easy.
 
I wouldn't be discouraged at 12 applicants, as they likely are the most confident and eager.

I have a student today who is driving all the way from Sarnia to Niagara Falls to assist on a Studio Celebrity shoot, then driving back and then heading to London for a 7:00 A.M. Event Photography job.  Doing what it takes when the chances are there.  So yes there are good ones still trying to break into the business.  The keeners will make it. 
Title: Re: Two Summer Internships at the Toronto Star!
Post by: Steve Russell on April 29, 2015, 12:00 AM
FYI

Taras announced the Interns today.


Brian Batista Bettencourt, who comes to us via Ryerson via Algonquin College.
and
Allen Agostino, who comes to us via the International Center of Photography, New York, USA.